Thursday, April 28, 2011

Libyan Turmoil 101


Our reader and personal friend Atl. asked the Russian readers on this blog why they defended so unanimously Gaddafi.
This fits right in with a private e-mail exchange I had wth our reader Levantine who became quickly a soulmate.
Of course reader and personal friend Capo has no trouble attuning to this line of thought, he knows Russia extremely well.

The starting position is the personality of Gaddafi:
- Strong personality, alone and contemplative.
- He doesn't give a shit about luxury or money.
- Strong nationalist Libyan first and always.
- Says "F..k you" to the whole world.

If you go looking in the Russian folklore and Saga's, that's exactly the type the Russians love, the type of their heroes.
Russians have an unbelievable capacity for suffering and respect other people with the same capacity.
The sufferings of the Napoleonic war and '40/'45 wouldn't have been possible with any other people AND it was an expression of their nationalism.
A Russian who lives abroad is only happy when he goes back home.

Which brings me to the main topic of this article: Nationalism.

For the people who are new on this blog, I am not Libyan, I am a Flemish (Belgian) businessman who works with Libya since approx. 10 years.
When this whole rotten thing started I was so upset that I wrote an article, my first on this blog here, which nobody wanted to publish. they accused me of making a "saint out of Gaddafi".
So I started this blog and I am proud of it.
You are now 18.000 to read me.
As a Flemish man, from the land of Tyl Ulenspieghel, a book every Russian knows, I know about national pride and betrayal.
Nationalism became a bad word because of the nazi semantics, they were not nationalists, they were power hungry dictators who copied the Marxist Soviet State structure: the state takes care of you, so you don't question the state.
The state becomes an anonymous nomenklatura with no responsibility, no matter who is member of the nomenklatura, it's the power game of the state control.
When Gaddafi started his real revolution he had no clue how to govern a third world country, he was a military man.
So he made a lot of mistakes and since the Soviets were the only people willing to help him, he chose socialism.
After some years he realized his mistake and figured his own solution:
The Tribal hierarchic system.
The tribes were not ready to accept "democracy", they didn't even know what it meant, but they had run their tribe's social structure since thousands of years.
They had their justice system and their tribal support system, based on "The tribe and its people first".
And it started working.
He left all the social and inner tribal problems to the tribes and give them the budget for it. He only interfered in inter-tribal problems and guided the discussions until the tribal leaders worked it out. He pushed in a certain direction but never ordered a solution.
The composition of the social structure of the tribes is the original democracy. 
Within the tribe you have the clans, composed of the families belonging to each clan, each clan having a territory.
Each family has its own rights of social distribution and can request justice any time instantaneously.
The whole clan or tribe, if it's important, participates.
Bad justice? I don't think so. With hundreds of people judging it's the ultimate democratic system.
That's the reason why Gaddafi is respected by the tribes and why he can't be a cold blooded murderer of his own people, he wouldn't survive 5 minutes.

More later.


  1. Hermes MS,

    Nice summary.

    As for 'Capo' Russians might be more familiar with the elongated form 'Capodistrias' which I write under out of respect for a figure in Russian Diplomatic History who has been under appreciated thru the years in the world's history books.

    Russian, and Chinese, diplomacy in this affair has not been without its flaws. Some of it stems from too close a concern, some might say even cynical pre-occupation for their own self-interest. After all, watching the French, Brits, Americans and assorted European and MEastern peon powers muck things up royally in a very ugly and potentially very self-defeating adventure is not without some long term benefits, and short term entertainment failure for men, and that is the operative word "men," who come from a very tough and unforgiving world.

    Nevertheless, even someone as harden and tough as Putin realizes that letting this go on too long gives BSers, like BHL or John McCain, free reign to make up whatever they like about whatever they hold forth on in world affairs.

  2. that should have been 'entertainment value' instead of 'entertainment failure' ... a not so subliminal comment?

  3. ahh.. A good insight into a Russian soul and I can't say you are wrong anywhere, friend!

    I would also add - Gaddafi always speaks the truth openly to the world for which he is hated by many but this never stopped him.

  4. The Tribal hierarchic system which you describe is the "normal" African system also found in the old South Africa and which the Afrikaner governments wanted to preserve by a system of separate development in the homelands but which was abhorred by the rest of the world (including Gadaffi) as so-called "apartheid".
    The present ANC leader and president of SA was one of the first to distance himself from Gadaffi when all this started. It is a pity that he never realised that he should rather have supported the Boere ...

  5. @ Petrus

    It's clear that he made judgement errors which are counterproductive today.
    I certainly don't have to teach YOU how fickle Africans can be.
    Depends who talked to them last.

  6. As a student of history myself, I agree with everything Hermes says about the Russian people and their indomitable character, but I'd still like to hear from any Russian reader(s) of this blog who would put the likes of Fidel Castro, Kim Jong-il and Bashar al Assad on the same pedestal as Gaddafi and, should they choose so to do,kindly explain to me their reason(s) for making that personal comparison.


  7. I'd be particularly interested in hearing from the Russian contributor who wrote:

    'Thank you, brother, Russians are with Gaddafi, the greatest man in history!'

    A proud Russian nationalist claiming that a non-Russian, Gaddafi, is "the greatest man in history", doesn't quite fit the previously enunciated stereotype, does it?


  8. To a "student of history himself"

    Being a Russian .... Well, to all the above listed by you individuals, I would add Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Che .... because these people embodied the idea of equality among other individuals.

    Call me "not lefty from St.Petersburg" (Russia, not Florida)

  9. Former CIA Director praises Gaddafi's co-operation and counter-terrorism role.

    This should lead to some interesting questions during the coming confirmation hearings.

  10. @ not lefty from Petersburg....

    The people you mention are not really champions of humanitarian thinking.
    I, personally, do not like to put Gaddafi in that group, he is not an ideologue, he is a pragmatist for the benefit of Libya.
    I am not going to discuss this list since there are humanitarian, political and strategic considerations and it would leave the topic "Libya" in the dark.

  11. @ Capo

    Interesting link, it confirms my feeling that the CIA is not happy and that their North African/Arab construction has been blown to pieces by Clinton/Obama.
    The French have their first come-uppance in Morocco: 8 deads, and the French presidency didn't even release the number of dead Frenchmen, the French press did.

  12. @ Hermes

    Not to put too fine a point on it, Che Guevara was an evil killer. Ditto Stalin, Lenin, Mao. The LAST thing Gaddafi needs right now is to be identified with any of this lot.

    Btw, any members of the Leon Trotsky or Genghis Khan fan clubs out there who'd like to have their say before we close this particular thread?


  13. Ideology is the important thing in our life's, it's always intersting to discuise about. But, how are you there, what's the news?

  14. "Interesting link, it confirms my feeling that the CIA is not happy and that their North African/Arab construction has been blown to pieces by Clinton/Obama."

    Hayden (the ex-CIA director) did strongly indicate personal ire. But generally, I haven't come to a clear picture of the relationship dynamics within the US government*. Test your feelings about it with what is said in this article -

    (*) One thing that seems sure is that Obama hardly ever leads anything.

  15. Petrus Potgieter, can you point to an article that explains what you said about SAR in some detail? If you can't, someone should sit down and write it.

    If a journalist came here and read us, what he would conclude: "Gaddafi is supported by a motley crew that includes... and apartheid-apologetics."

    I have no problem with iconoclasm. I have a problem with undeveloped iconoclasm.

  16. @ RUStaman

    I am in a somewhat interesting position in so far that I can observe the reactions of the people and the right and wrong moves of the different local authorities.
    I also don't want to inform the opposition, which limits my freedom of speech.
    In any case what I can reconfirm 100 % is that Gaddafi wins without an invasion by the US, no doubt about it.
    Notwithstanding all the cock-and-bull stories by the opposition and the NATO bombings the Libyan different armed forces did not make one single strategic or tactical error and their firepower has not even be touched by 1 %. Except for Air Force and Anti-Aircraft systems.
    However the outcome will be on the ground.
    Next week I will leave here but I have enough info to continue for weeks.

  17. Levantine,

    Could you try post long version of link:


  18. @ ALL who empathize with Gaddafi

    In my last comment I made the following observation.

    'The LAST thing Gaddafi needs right now is to be identified with this lot' (Lenin, Stalin, Mao) and I singled out Che Guevara, referring to him, accurately, as "an evil killer".
    Once you learn the TRUTH about this despicable creature (see link below) I hope and pray that the more objective thinkers among you will come around to my way of thinking and see this man for what he was.

    PS: This will be my last comment on this topic.


  19. Solidarity Gaddafi today the Russian Communists andRussian nationalists

    But the nationalists hate the Communists.

    Gaddafi's cool and courageous, he was not a Communist, because he likes them well

    If the U.S. attacked Cuba, the Russian nationalists say- it was good. Castro to fuck

    Communists in Russia today, little, many nationalistsyes

  20. @ poollcenter

    Perhaps for the Communists it's still a case of "Vremya prokadit alubov ostayotsa", eh? :-)



  21. I not clearly written, sorry

    Russian nationalist hates all "red dogs" - Castro, Kim, Che Guevara, Lenin, etc., because "Red Dogs Lenin and Trockyi" said - all the peoples of the Russian Empire had equal rights. And killed the Russian Tsar.

    Russian nationalist hates the U.S. imperialism, he hates the European civilization.

    But he loves Russian imperialism, the Russian Orthodox Cristian civilization.

    Gadaffi for him a great man - because Gaddafi told "fuck U.S. and EU"

    But the Georgians to Russian nationalist is a "black ass monkeys"

    Ukrainian for him - "hohol", "Bandera". Ukraine has to suck from Russia.

    No need to look at the Russian nationalists with pink glasses on his nose

  22. @poolcenter

    As a Viagra promoter are you worried that you may be targeted by Susan Rice and Foggy Bottom gals as a secret supplier to Gaddafi's dreaded Viagra Brigades? See my post on Kappert Isle.

  23. I have a lot of different promoter, and Viagra, too))
    I have a lot of Google account, and you have no interest in what I do

    I know about Viagra and Rice. We wrote about it

    It began not Rice.

    Reuters wrote this on April 23

    Guardian and Yahoo repeated

    But April 25 Dailymail wrote lies, only half of the article from Reuters

    Then all the western media have a lie ///

  24. Yes, you're right to point out how unprofessional and ad hoc the American State Department has acted in this affair. This is what happens when the Clintons are in charge, they grab whatever they can at the moment to advance themselves and their objective. Watching the US Ambassador to Libya speak for a half hour the other day was painful as an American. He was ready to state the casualities so far 10 to 30 thousand but at the same time had no way of knowing??? These clowns should be forced to listen to themselves in a dark room for 24 hours non-stop. And in his case, he should be forced to read his reports outloud back to State prior to Gaddafi becoming the scourge of the civilized world. Given what he wrote before and how he worked with the Libyan gov't, any professional, or man with integrity would have resigned before being used in such a humilitating way by the gals from Foggy Bottom.

  25. @poollcenter

    what a BS, many (if not most) russian nationalists are non-religious and not necessarily hate communists (especially strong statesmen like Stalin)

  26. @ Anonymous

    Russian nationalists not religious???
    You would be surprised.
    Stalin is a very special case. During my travels in Siberia I learned more about the man than in Moscow.
    Of course he was a psychopath and an inhuman butcher, but he was also something else: the best damn administrator of any country at that time and a genius in negotiations.
    He simply packed in Roosevelt.