Thursday, May 5, 2011

Libyan Turmoil 117 (bis)

The big tribe gathering is a complete success.
It's totally live on Libyan TV.
Every speaker, maximum 10 minutes and also much shorter, is presented by name and tribe.
There is also a list of names in Latin letters.
Still the media claim that they cannot verify, of course since they don't speak a word of Arabic and have no translators, they can always claim they cannot verify.
I don't speak Arabic either but I had somebody next to me who translated.
It was very revealing, even Eastern tribes were there, it's still going on now. Literally hundreds of tribe and clan chiefs from all over Libya.
The 3 stooges should pay attention, Benghazi can never even hope on such a tribal gathering, they cannot even reveal the names of 23 Council members of the 31 which are so-called members.

The speeches are all defiant and in favor of Gaddafi, those are the civilians the 3 stooges are talking about.
The 3 stooges agreed to give 250 million euro or dollars or whatever to the rebels during their mafia sessions in Rome, peanuts for their shoestring murder scenario, and they still need Qatar as paymaster.
When are they going to realize how ridiculous they really are? 


  1. One or two western articles mention that 10-15% of the Libyan citizenry isn't tribally organised. They are Berbers, Turks... Can you, Hermes, ask about this (what is the factual truth, and how concretely they participate in the political life)?

  2. @ Levantine

    The "foreign" elements are concentrated in Tripoli, Benghazi, Misurata(before the troubles), Tobruk, and are composed of old Ottoman Turkish descendants, Egyptians(mostly), Chadians and Touaregs.
    The use of the name Berbers is misleading. In the whole Maghreb the name Berber was given to the local population, non Arab from before the first Arab invasion.
    Those Berbers were not really one population group but just a name given to the non-Arabs.
    Libya is a very vast territory with a very small population.
    Every waterhole was the start of a family, growing into a clan and by intermarriage between clans growing into tribes over thousands of years.
    Today the rebels claim there are only 160 tribes. Here they play on semantic differences between English and Arabic. When the Libyans say they have 2000 representatives of 850 tribes they actually use the Arabic word for clans. For the Libyans this is important to know, it's not just the tribal chiefs who support Gaddafi but also the clan chiefs, a much more democratic huge number of people, representing the whole population or close to.
    The figure of 10/15 % berbers is impossible to control, it could be correct as it could be wrong.
    The Tripoli population is much less attached to the tribes but in case of war like today it is clear that their attachment to their tribes and clans became much stronger.

  3. @ Levantine

    The irony is that the Touaregs are actually the original Libyans. They left the country to the farmers and goatherds and went inside the desert to live their own life and culture.
    I spoke with a Tuareg family recently which came from the Niger border by camel to pledge their support for Gaddafi and offered their tribal assistance in the fight. No payments involved, only loyalty.
    Gaddafi thanked them but asked them to stay calm and take care of their families.

  4. @ Hermes

    An excellent description of the past and current state of play in Libya, to our inquisitive friend Levantine, if you don't mind me saying so.

    Readers will note that Arab/Ottoman/Muslim 'Imperialist' invasion and occupation of the Magreb predate any subsequent 'Western' designs on that region (ditto the rest of the Middle East).


  5. Thank you for this. I cited it here:


  6. How we are all apparently interested in these things, and how scarce is the information about them!